Margaret Wells’s email on Charlie’s family, secondary source

Gramps ID S0052

Narrative

All this from Margaret Wells on 2 Feb 2009:

Margaret Wells
to Emrys

Yes I agree this is the right William Williams.
According to my mother Mary (Polly) was the only survivor of the first batch of children, all the others dying in an epidemic. I have not yet tried searching for all their deaths in the BMD.

My understanding of the family (from the census returns plus info from my mother)is as follows:

Dau Eliza b 1870 prob died young.

Dau Mary (Polly) b 1871/2. She married Will Thomas, sometime miner and Cefn publican.
They had: Henry Vivian (Harry ), who married Nancy Ellis, his cousin, no children. Harry fascinating character - I met him many times, more of him later
Glyn,
David Trevor (Dai),
Marian Eluned Thomasine, teacher in north Wales.
Stuart, died in quarry aged about 19

Dau Sarah, b 1873/4 prob died young.

Son William H, b 1876/7 prob died young.

Son Benjamin b 1879/80 prob died young.

Dau Margaret (Maggie)b 1882/3. (my mother describes her as the first child of the second family)She married Ted (John Nicholas Edward) Elliman.
They had Winifred (Winnie) who married Bryn Price, no children. Winnie died recently.

Dau Elizabeth (Bessie) b 1884/5. She married Jack (John ) Hancock from Derbyshire and moved to Woodbine Cottage, Greenaway Lane, Hackney, Matlock Derbys. no children. She was earlier a teacher at Cefn School. Mum has a book about Cefn with pics of Bessie in.

Son David (DJ) b 1886/7. He married Annie (Sarah Annie). He was a miner, went blind, then had a shoe repair shop in Cefn where he lived.
They had Nancy, Glenys and Mavis. all 3 of whom married with children.

Son Charlie b 9 Feb 1891, m 24 June 1922, d 21 Apr 1974. M Gwladys Morfydd Williams, had Brenda Margaret b 2 Oct 1923, who m Geoffrey Arthur Wells b 8 Oct 1927, m 2 May 1953. Had David Geoffrey Hewitt b 24 Oct 1953(!), Margaret Elizabeth b 20 Sep 1955, Peter John b 26 Jun 1957, Colin Michael b 31 Mar 1959. DGHW unmarried, no children. I am unmarried but have partner Stephen Charles Pope b 26 Dec 1951 and son Thomas Arthur Pope b 29 Jun 1993. PJW unmarried, no children. CMW m to Linda?? no children. Geoffrey A died 15 Aug 200.1

Dau Claudia Louise b 1893/4. She married Will Ellis lived in High St. Cefn.
They had Margaret who married Ivor Clement, & they had Alun now a retired surgeon living in Swansea, with wife & 3 children.
Nancy who married her cousin Harry (Henry Vivian Thomas) above.
Elizabeth (Betty)( Nancy's twin) who married Bert Richards (also a twin). They had Sandra and Susan.
Sandra m Ray Meredith and had Alan and Louise. Ray d about a year ago.
Susan m Richard(?) Dingley had son Richard.

I visited a lot of these Cefn people when I was a child and remember them all well. I am still in touch with Alun Clement and Sandra Meredith. When my Dad died in 2001 he was cremated and we went to Brecon and scattered him on the hill at Sandra's farm. We met up with the remaining family then. This was Winnie (since died), Mavis, Sandra, Ray (since died) Alan, Louise, Susan, Alun & family.

Uncle Harry Thomas was an amazing character. I stayed at the cottage with him & Nancy often. Even when quite old he used to walk the hills for miles every morning. He was in Cairo in SIB during the war doing special missions! He showed us a full sheik's outfit and used to dress up as an Arab whilst in Egypt. He had a long hooked nose and passed as an Arab, spoke many languages. He also was in China according to my mother. He showed us photos he had taken of people being beheaded - possibly in China or elsewhere in the far East. I am interested in finding out more about him but haven''t yet found any records. I think it is too early for 2nd WW stuff to be available but I'm not sure. Mum says it was all secret stuff hush so we won't find anything. Our very own Lawrence of Arabia.
Unfortunately I don't know what happened to his stuff when he died and the existing family don't know either. Probably Nancy got rid of it.

I have looked at the census info I have which I believe to be William H William's parents. From WHW marriage cert we know his father is Thomas Wms Grocer. In 1871 census I have Thomas Williams b Brecon, Llewell, innkeeper and grocer at the George Inn High St Cefn with wife Elizabeth, b Carmarthen, and dau Elizabeth, son John, dau Margaret. They are also in the 1861 census at the George Inn with more children and 1851 in High St Cefn and 1841 in Quarry Row.
I cannot be absolutely sure this is the correct family but it looks probable.

I have been in touch with Delwen again this week and will forward to you her mails which contain various bits of info.

It is addictive isn't it!

Margaret

References

    1. Residence, Hancock, Jack (John)
      1. Williams, Bessie (Primary) [I0100]
      2. Hancock, Jack (John) (Primary) [I0123]
    2. Hancock, Jack (John) [I0123]
    3. Williams, Bessie [I0100]
    1. Family of Thomas, Henry Vivian (Harry) and Ellis, Nancy
      1. Thomas, Henry Vivian (Harry) [I0115]
      2. Ellis, Nancy [I0144]
    1. Family of Unknown, Unknown partner of Nancy Williams and Williams, Nancy
      1. Unknown, Unknown partner of Nancy Williams [I0129]
      2. Williams, Nancy [I0125]
    1. Unknown, Unknown child of Glenys Williams [I0131]
    1. Unknown, Unknown child of Mavis Williams [I0133]
    1. Richards, Albert John (Bert) [I0152]
    1. Williams, Nancy [I0125]
    1. Pope, Thomas Arthur [I0140]
    2. Birth, Pope, Thomas Arthur
      1. Pope, Thomas Arthur (Primary) [I0140]
    1. Dingley, Brian Peter [I0158]
    1. Thomas, Henry Vivian (Harry) [I0115]
    1. Treen, Alexander [I0132]
    1. Meredith, Alan Raymond [I0156]
    1. Birth, Williams, Brenda Dorothy Margaret
      1. Williams, Brenda Dorothy Margaret (Primary) [I0027]
    2. Williams, Brenda Dorothy Margaret [I0027]
    1. Elliman, Winifred (Winnie) L [I0121]
    1. Williams, Mavis [I0127]
    1. Family of Richards, Albert John (Bert) and Ellis, Elizabeth (Betty)
      1. Ellis, Elizabeth (Betty) [I0145]
      2. Richards, Albert John (Bert) [I0152]
    1. Ellis, Nancy [I0144]
    1. Family of Thomas, Will and Williams, Mary (Polly)
      1. Williams, Mary (Polly) [I0103]
      2. Thomas, Will [I0114]
    1. Thomas, Glyn [I0116]
    1. Thomas, Marian Eluned Thomasine [I0118]
    1. Birth, Wells, Colin Michael
      1. Wells, Colin Michael (Primary) [I0138]
    2. Wells, Colin Michael [I0138]
    1. Family of Wells, Colin Michael and Schunke, Linda
      1. Schunke, Linda [I0141]
      2. Wells, Colin Michael [I0138]
    1. Price, Brynmor (Bryn) [I0122]
    1. Pearce, Sarah Annie [I0124]
    1. Wells, Geoffrey Arthur [I0134]
    2. Williams, Brenda Dorothy Margaret [I0027]
    3. Marriage, Family of Wells, Geoffrey Arthur and Williams, Brenda Dorothy Margaret
      1. Williams, Brenda Dorothy Margaret (Primary) [I0027]
      2. Wells, Geoffrey Arthur (Primary) [I0134]
    1. Unknown, Unknown child of Nancy Williams [I0128]
    1. Richards, Susan Margaret [I0154]
    1. Wells, Geoffrey Arthur [I0134]
    2. Birth, Wells, Geoffrey Arthur
      1. Wells, Geoffrey Arthur (Primary) [I0134]
    1. Swansea
      1. Clement, David Alun (Primary) [I0147]
    2. Clement, David Alun [I0147]
    1. Schunke, Linda [I0141]
    1. Thomas, Will [I0114]
    1. Richards, Sandra Elizabeth [I0153]
    1. Meredith, Anna Louise (Louise) [I0157]
    1. Ellis, Will [I0142]
    1. Thomas, Stuart [I0119]
    1. Meredith, Joseph Thomas Raymond (Ray) [I0155]
    2. Death, Meredith, Joseph Thomas Raymond (Ray)
      1. Meredith, Joseph Thomas Raymond (Ray) (Primary) [I0155]
    1. Family of Williams, D J and Pearce, Sarah Annie
      1. Williams, D J [I0101]
      2. Pearce, Sarah Annie [I0124]
    1. Dingley, Richard [I0159]
    1. Ellis, Elizabeth (Betty) [I0145]
    1. Family of Hancock, Jack (John) and Williams, Bessie
      1. Hancock, Jack (John) [I0123]
      2. Williams, Bessie [I0100]
    1. Clement, Ivor Oswald [I0146]
    1. Williams, Glenys [I0126]
    1. Family of Treen, Alexander and Williams, Mavis
      1. Williams, Mavis [I0127]
      2. Treen, Alexander [I0132]
    1. Unknown, Unknown partner of Glenys Williams [I0130]
    1. Birth, Wells, David Geoffrey Hewitt
      1. Wells, David Geoffrey Hewitt (Primary) [I0135]
    2. Wells, David Geoffrey Hewitt [I0135]
    1. Thomas, David Trevor (Dai) [I0117]
    1. Wells, Geoffrey Arthur [I0134]
    2. Death, Wells, Geoffrey Arthur
      1. Wells, Geoffrey Arthur (Primary) [I0134]
    1. Death, Williams, Charlie
      1. Williams, Charlie (Primary) [I0026]
    2. Williams, Charlie [I0026]
    1. Family of Unknown, Unknown partner of Glenys Williams and Williams, Glenys
      1. Williams, Glenys [I0126]
      2. Unknown, Unknown partner of Glenys Williams [I0130]
    1. Family of Ellis, Will and Williams, Claudia Louise
      1. Ellis, Will [I0142]
      2. Williams, Claudia Louise [I0102]
    1. Ellis, Margaret [I0143]
    1. Surgeon, retired
      1. Clement, David Alun (Primary) [I0147]
    2. Clement, David Alun [I0147]
    1. Unknown, Unknown partner of Nancy Williams [I0129]
    1. Meredith, Joseph Thomas Raymond (Ray) [I0155]
    1. Family of Elliman, John Nicholas Edward (Ted) and Williams, Margaret
      1. Williams, Margaret [I0099]
      2. Elliman, John Nicholas Edward (Ted) [I0120]
    1. Pope, Stephen Charles [I0139]
    2. Birth, Pope, Stephen Charles
      1. Pope, Stephen Charles (Primary) [I0139]
    1. Hancock, Jack (John) [I0123]
    1. Birth, Wells, Margaret Elizabeth
      1. Wells, Margaret Elizabeth (Primary) [I0136]
    2. Wells, Margaret Elizabeth [I0136]